Carnitina, colina, cancro e colesterolo: la connessione TMAO

100 Risposte a “Carnitina, colina, cancro e colesterolo: la connessione TMAO”

1. "Blaming cholesterol for heart diesease is something like blaming firefighters for starting fires." -Dr. Mary Enig

2. Ok, make a video of you holding your degrees and say what you just said, and post it on Youtube. Anyone can say they're a doctor.

3. (No matter how great Paleos think cholesterol is, beneficial cholesterol components of cells is neither increased raising it in plasma, nor decreased lowering it, thus remains only positive consequences to lowering, only negative to raising. Translation: No reason to eat animal products,  many reasons not to.  

4. Then why the hell egg and milk is in the nutrition chart that has been all over the world until now and people here in suadi arabia is taking them both in daily life and there is no health issue about what you've been saying doc and majority of their population died of age without those complication you stated i mean common if you if what you are saying is for real then i dare you to take egg and milk and other food  that has those carnitine and choline out of the food nutrition chart and implement your new chart globaly doc…………..

5. So no meat, no dairy, no eggs? What exactly am I supposed to eat then?

6. Wonderful video, 9min of almost all you need to now.
   tnx doc 🙂

7. don't you just love research done on bias? yeah it might increase your cholesterol level but as long as this person is doing intense exercise, you burn it away anyway.

   then you get the benefits of L-Carnitine

8. why has it been reported in sports science research that L-Carnitine is beneficial to heart health due to thermogenesis?

9. A lot of talk about eggs. Not so much about all the veg that contains high choline. 

   The last number is choline content [from wikipedia]

   Broccoli 1 pound 454g 182
   Cauliflower 1 pound 454g 177
   Firm tofu 2 cups 470mL (2 cups) 142
   Uncooked quinoa 1 cup 1 cup 119
   Soybeans dry 100g 116
   Large hardboiled egg 1 1 113
   Spinach 1 pound 454g 113
   Cooked kidney beans 2 cups 2 cups 108

   typical greger.

   [interesting TMAO stuff though]

10. LETS TALK ABOUT PLANTS WITH PESTICIDES AND CHEMICALS..you do not know what you are talking about ..everybody eat everything except TRANS FATS …EAT LEAN PORTIONS OF BEEF …and tell your god to fix us …tired of this geeky doctor put the fear of YOUR GOD IN US ALL …THERE IS NO HOPE …BECAUSE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO WIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 734-320-5790

11. We need cholesterol to make pregnenolone. You need choline for brain function. We need carnitine for neurological function. If your DHEA level is low you are succeptable to prostate problems. The problem is eating the corn fed sick cow. CLA fat in animals helps prevent cancer. The canola and pufa especially heated is the problem. The nurse at the vegan group here died from a brain tumor. Get the facts straight with eating the proper foods. Get off the grains,beans and refined food. Where are you getting carnosine, phosphoralated serine, D- Ribose

12. http://chriskresser.com/choline-and-tmao-eggs-still-dont-cause-heart-disease

13. Thank you 🙂

14. LOL we need choline, so this makes no sense, nor does it actually say anything concrete. We dont know exactly what the numbers are for choline intake. So this is just scare mongering. 1 egg a day is, by far, let alone 2 eggs is not even  1/2 of the RDA of choline for men (550 mg which is only adequate intake and is a guess for lack of data).

    Meat diets and cancer? Our ancestors ate lots of meat protein. Well more than 150-250+ grams a day some people claim. That's certainly far more than i eat (i get about 60-120 grams on any given day). So if meat is so bad, then it must have been so bad for millions of years. They must have had prostate cancer even way back then.

    Choline is in all cells, not just cancer cells. The fact that its concentrated is irrelevant and doesn't prove it causes cancer to begin with.

15. What about all the depressed, over weight vegans that constantly talk about bloating, weight gain and lack of energy? On top of that they also seem to be rather more aggressive/angry than most. Is it really worth it? Before you ask, my girlfriend manages a health food store so we do get to speak and interact with a lot of them including the owners.

16. Damn, I supplemented Carnitin for years. Bad idea as it seems 🙁

17. WTF can you eat these days!

18. Not a single participant in this study ate stake alone.250 milligrams of isotopically labeled carnitine from a supplemen was added. Even with this large amount of Carnitine the TMAO levels showed no increase prior to the course of antibiotics.
    The vegans tested never ingested a course of antibiotics.Furthermore Carrots, tomatoes, cauliflower, potatoes and peas resulted in higher levels of TMAO than beef or chicken.
    If you doubt it then just look it up.

19. Stop eating people

20. This is a load of shite, l carnitine is very safe to use. There is dozens of studies proving its safety, and health benefits.

21. So what do you make of this study that found that Choline supplementation improves liver function and improves cholesterol
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24368431

22. It baffles me how people conclude that traditional foods like red meat, eggs, and fish cause the TMAO. Isn't it obvious that the bacteria is the cause, not those healthy foods. Research is needed to sort out what specific bacteria produces this compound, what reduces the presence of the pathogenic bacteria, whether a diet high in both plants and animals produces different results, what effect probiotics and fermented foods have on TMAO production, and whether or not TMAO has some unknown beneficial downstream signal. This is a prime example of healthy user bias.

23. Top, it fears one. Too bad, if you know more about AcH and their benefits. Hope the infos aren't true. 🙁 I can live easly without meat, but without choline, l-carnite and eggs?

24. (A study done on 6 people) …this is only one study in a sea of studies on L-carnitine. In other studies, L-carnitine has actually shown the potential to prevent clogged arteries. Also, keep in mind that the mice used in the present study were genetically-modified to be susceptible to heart disease, so the results of the study may not even be transferable to humans.

    …A study released four days AFTER the study we’ve been talking about concluded that L-carnitine significantly improves cardiac health in patients after a heart attack. An even more recent study has found that L-carnitine is actually heart protective. And as the new study's authors pointed out, that while the TMAO carnitine study is of interest, the main study referenced was in animals, and unlike this more recent study, lacked hard outcomes. (references on site) http://jonbarron.org/heart-health/acetyl-l-carnitine-supplements-and-heart-disease#.VtYaUEM7hok

25. Dr. Greger's technological nomenclature frightens me.  Words like IF MAYBE COULD MIGHT MAY FIGURE SEEMS are quite scary.

26. people are vegan for ethical reasons and then they get a built in bias, a desire to see. I don't know about carnitine. it would be a full time job with zero bias or an objective mind to just sort out all the facts and conclusions, and then still have to determine materiality and form an overall opinion on diet. it would probably be this: eat whole foods, mostly organic. macros may matter to an extent but also there's much wiggle room. carbs essential for athletes, fat is not evil, extra protein for bodybuilders, powerlifters. veggies good, fruit good too. a little meat can't hurt, and is a great safety net because we evolved on meat and things like creative and carnitine in it may be responsible for meat gains. there are a lot of products out there, and variety, today, to be able to eat how you choose. avoid soy for phytoestrogens, flavonoids, eat less to lose weight, avoid fructose, HFCS. eat fiber and whole foods, be active- distance running optional. alcohol in moderation tops. I'm no Muslim but since I started lifting I don't crave it. it is a poison, to be technical, and something I have enjoyed KB my past but not hangovers.

27. Another great Video! Thank you Dr. Greger! Eggs scare me "for sure"

28. the fact is if this guy can keep all of the eggs and red meat and all the bad saturated fats and choline out of you if he can keep you fat and sick and purchasing plenty of medicine and coming to plenty of doctors visits for himself and his fellow doctors they don't want you healthy are you can't buy meds and you won't show up to their office

29. Choline is present in cancer cells because the body uses choline to combat the cancer.  True?  No reason  to believe that, but how much more reason to believe that choline is causative?  Or that TMAO is causative in humans?  Maybe lotsa reason, don't know 'cause I haven't seen the research basis for any of these assumptions but I look forward to exploring this.  Good to have preliminary evidence like the doc's video though!

30. I love eggs, cheese and butter, yum

31. Dr. Greger's research into research goes beyond the blind leading the blind. Having worked in four natural food stores, and even having sold supplements, it's clear that people work hard and take pleasure in paying for products that mark their fate. Eternal life? Better try Genesis 1:29 to enjoy a little bit more of the eternal moment of now… though there are always Trump steaks.

32. Hang on Dr Greiger, lets avoid junk and saturated fats but eggs too? I have fatty liver and cholesterolosis and so Im worried about this issue, I yoyo between eating eggs daily and no eggs at all, choline is supposed to be good for the liver in helping export fat out of the liver, we aren't all the same, some have sluggish phase II detox (I have Gilberts too) for example, choline deficient diets have been linked to fatty liver disease.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3601486/
    This study suggests that choline deficiency is dangerous to the liver, so whats the score? Its a tough one for me, I tried keto and couldn't handle it, did the Mcdougal diet and it was ok but worried about all those carbs converting to glucose in my liver, another vegan approach would be to go vegan with limited fat or oil, good fats like flax seed, vitamin E, D3, and egg yolks (Choline), but you get two camps one aying no oil and the other saying lots of oil, I believe keto for example may be good for seizures and losing weight but for some diseases may not be a good idea (such as fatty liver and cholesterolosis), from what I understand one the one hand the low fat high carb diet would help fatty liver cause you ingest very little fat and so fat stored withing the liver is burnt up as fuel but I don't understand this if carbs convert to fat in the liver (or possibly they convert to fat IF you eat carbs along with fat, hence the no/low fat diet??) But what if the liver is genetically predisposed to export fat slowly from the liver as in my case (Gilberts syndrome) where if Im not mistaken detox phase II is sluggish? The you have a sluggish liver exporting fat slowly out of the liver and this is where choline comes into play – it helps to export fat out of the liver, I suppose I could use herbs like Milk Thistle which protects liver cells and bitter veggies that help create bile like artichoke/cruciferous veg etc, but then the bile arrives in my gallbladder for storage and this is where I have a second problem (probably part of the first, all one problem I mean) where cholesterol/sludge has bult up and ended up having polyps of cholesterol on the inside wall of the gallbladder, but here fat is supposed to help cause the gallbladder in response to ingestion of fat then squeezes its contents (bile/cholesterol I assume) to emulsify dietary fat and this is the cycle.
    If I eat a mainly low fat and high carb diet I worry that I'll get fatter, and most importantly even if I ingest zero fat or very low fat that my gallblader will get clogged up with cholesterol cause the body makes cholesterol daily anyway (unless there are other ways to make the gallbladder squeeze out bile etc and stop it from getting clogged up, I mean a vegan approach or taking some herbs)
    Or if I take the fat route then, I can see how choline intake helps export fat out of the liver, fat also triggers the gallbladder to squueze out its contents and keeps the process flowing, Im not saying I would do Keto (75% fat diet) I only want to add eggs for their choline content, and some good fats like flax seed oil or olive oil to squeeze the gallbladder and keep it 'flowing'.
    Im at a bind as Ive done both routes, low fat high carb, high fat low carb, vegan also and paleo, I think Im beggining to realise one needs to tailor a diet for their own particular goals/disease etc.

33. So is it the blood choline or it being converted to TMAO?

34. So is it the blood choline or it being converted to TMAO?

35. Fuck it! I am going to eat a nice bloody steak and enjoy my life.

36. I wouldn't go and see this doctor if you paid me

37. what kind of diet should cancer patients have then? if consumption of choline ultimately causes the cancer to spread, then you shouldn't have a diet high in protein and fat (ketogenic diet) because most of your food is going to be meat and eggs, and one would think that would be the best diet to cut off cancer cell's food source, glucose, to starve them to death. Would these negative effects of carnitine and choline even matter if there's no food source (glucose) for cancer cells to grow (on a ketogenic diet)? more research is needed

38. So what about choline for vegans? You said we need to get some choline from nutrition but in plants there is very little choline

39. I see junk eaters posting junk comments

40. Really confused about choline, there are so many claims that its actually detoxifying to the liver… Why is that?

41. Excellent info; very well explained. I never heard of TMAO until tonight. I was watching a video by Dr. Dean Ornish, and he mentioned it.

42. so u take carnitine supplements with every meal. I have a deficiency …what do you say about that ? I am taking it to avoid heart disease… what do you suggest ? am I harming myself or helping ?

43. bull sh-t

44. What about Acetyl-l-carnitine (ALCAR) which crosses the blood brain barrier and is essential for acetylcholine production? And also what about citicoline (cognizin) which is also essential for acetylcholine production? Are they safe to supplement?

45. There are way more studies showing benefits of carnitine. I'll look at the research though, but you have zero credibility, your analysis is worthless.

46. Your gut biome controls your health. YOU control the health of your gut biome by WHAT you FEED it. It's really that simple.

    One of the most important substances for a healthy gut is FIBER. BUT fiber is the MOST deficient substance in the Western Diet. (SAD). 90% or more of Americans are fiber-deficient by the Gov't standards and the Gov't standards are extremely low relative to what our ancestors ate. Paleo was a plant eater, mostly (according to the fossil record, not the fad book). Be responsible for yourself, eat fiber-it's all around us.

47. Curses. Just checked my multi-vitamin. It contains both carnitine and choline.

48. i smell like fish sooooo what now??? llllIIIIIIlllllIIIIIlllll

49. Can't stand studies that use percentages… how stating the raw data. If you have a population of 10,000 in a study, and 2 test group participates get cancer as a result of eating eggs vs. 1 person in the control group… hell that's a 50% increase in incidence. Stop eating eggs. I never give any credibility to studies that use percentages.

50. For the executives in the "egg industry" to continue promoting egg consumption is reprehensible. I'm sure there is a "warmer" place in hell for them.

51. Lecithine seems to do the same as carnitine and it's in soy foods, lecithin supplements etc

52. He fails to mention the known benefits of choline. It is considered essential, and deficiency has side effects! Choline benefits the brain, cell structure, nervous system, muscles, and yes, the heart. Like all other things, simply do not go overboard, as this can be harmful in any case (for example, too much vitamin A can harm the system).

53. choline and fatty liver, Doc?

54. Please see this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29313753/?i=2&from=oatmeal

55. Vegans are not immortal against disease and death, there is no perfect food .Vegans are prone to Iron deficiency anemia , nothing wrong with eating healthy I do too but I do eat fish and chicken ,beans , tomatoes and avoid high carbs. Even so people forget we are here on earth only temporary ,everyone thinks they will live on forever or to 100 or 120 years of age , it will not happen ,you cannot deny it or avoid it you must accept it . If anyone lost a close family member you know what I am talking about , sometimes that is what it takes to wake you up to reality. My father died December 19, 2017 and it devastated me and still does and always will . A part of me died too that day , realizing my own mortality and what matters on earth and what does not . All this anger , hate , greed and politics does not matter in life who cares not me not anymore , materialism of things mean nothing to me neither does making a lot of money I do not care. No matter what you eat you and I will die too , sooner or later that is the future for you and me no avoiding it , it is a guarantee nobody wants death the final frontier for all forever.

56. Can intake of sunflower lecithin contribute to cancer?

57. I was taking Choline to boost Brain function ,as it is increases the efficiency of Nero-transmitters ?
    {High amount found in coffee.}

58. So is it safe to take l'carnitine for weight loss…..?

59. What about vegan butter containing soy lecithin?

60. Eat chicken and turkey much less choline than steak or eggs

61. Blimey. I used to take phosphatidalcholine three times a day to help with my digestion. Glad I packed that up.

62. As much as I love this channel, I really have to question the assertion made here:
    "Another recent study found that men who consumed two and a half or more eggs per week—that’s just like one egg every three days—”had an 81% increased risk of lethal prostate cancer.” Now, it could just be the cholesterol in eggs that’s increasing fatal cancer risk, but it could also be that choline."

    One large egg, hard boiled has 147mg choline x 2.5 per week = 368mg. <– You suggest this amount of choline increases cancer.

    YET, Dr Greger's Daily Dozen calls for 1.5 cups of beans (90mg choline for pinto) and 1 serving of cruciferous (31mg choline for 1/2 cup broccoli). That's 121mg of choline every DAY = 847mg per week. That doesn't even account for the nuts and grains and greens that have varying amounts as well! Meanwhile, what about people with a polymorphism that reduces their ability to produce choline naturally??? (MTHFD1 / PEMT)

63. Boom! Solid proof that we are frugivores

64. I have two questions ,how carnitin can reach into colon .as carnitin is made up of methionine and glycine.it disintegrate into methionine and glycine in upper small intestine that's basic biochemistry.2 our small intestine and colonel mucosa sheds cells every 3 days cells r made up of phosphitidyle choline .and that may be more than we consume .

65. All 100 trillion cells have phosphitidyle choline.so is it really bad?

66. Sir ,I want to see ur lab reports like insulin level,ogtt, lipid profile and inflammatory markers and coronary calcium scan

67. In India ,majority of Hindu population don't eat eggs also.but they have all diseases.

68. I think that you are Bias Vegan So called doctor.

69. False studies. I don't be live in it. Stupid

70. FAKE NEWS! These are the same hacks that tell us that Fruit Loops are healthy because they're low on saturated fat

71. Why should vegans develop those bacteria? Well WHY THE HELL should meat eaters develop those bactera that metabolize choline into TMAO??? This is the most stupid video ever and its clearly pieces missing from the puzzle.

72. Heart disease simply lack low of magnesium

73. Ok… I first heard of both choline and L-Carnitine (in the form of Acetyl L-Carnitine) in the context of nootropics. What is interesting is that both of them were recommended for their neuroprotective attacks. In fact, I had heard that choline deficiency was a factor in neurological diseases such as Alzheimer's. So, are we just picking our poison, here? If I had a choice, I'd rather have a healthy brain and die of a heart attack than have a healthy heart and lose my mind. Maybe it doesn't have to be a dichotomy… but I'd like to know what the truth is here. Are we just doomed either way?

74. I offset free-radicals by taking a good range of antioxidant supplements and eat eggs and meat in moderation and mostly veg and no grains. No lectins much. Everyone reacts differently to food and no one is Biochemically the same. Metabolic typing.

75. But isn't choline an essential nutrient needed to produce acetylcholine, an important neurotransmitter for memory, mood, muscle control, and other brain and nervous system functions? Most experts say most people, both meat eaters and vegans, do not even meet the recommendation amounts.

76. I own stock in pharma. Keep eating eggs and meat, people. It's good for my bottom line.

77. So we shouldn't eat chickpeas as well, because there is choline in it? Sorry to say this, but correlational studies based hypotheses are wrong 80% of the time. Correlation isn't causation.

78. 😵😦😲😰
    Keto suggests eating like 4 eggs a day ! WTH ? I hear no TMAO complaints in the community. Yet yesterday was the first time I smelled like a cat pee’ed on my sweater.
    Turns out it Was my armpits.

    I’m scared

79. I don't know l-CARnitine lowers my heart rate from 89 to 75 – which seams good for my tachycardia.

80. Is this guy secretly a vegen or vegetarian ?

81. one cup of brocoli or brussel sprout have 50mg'sh of choline, will they be converted to TMAO ?

82. Ray Kurzweil has been saying he takes phosphatidyl choline as an anti aging supplement. Is this also a danger for prostate and other cancers?

83. So, what should vegans do about their choline intake?

84. Thanks for sharing!!!

85. Good luck getting enough choline on a plant based diet. And you kinda need choline to live and think.

86. The Secret is that we can now bypass the old gut route, in many different ways, to get our Choline into the Blood.

87. Darn. I wish I could use that letter from the egg people in my research paper.

88. I have been vegan for over 11 years, I have definitly been deficient in choline. I started a suppliment and my thinking, memory, and brain fog are gone. He is talking aboute high choline intake. You need choline, but not too much. I take a suppliment once a week.

89. But pork goes together witch antibiotics so there is no problem 😂

90. I'm a vegan so I'm really happy to hear that I can eat meat out of the blue and not have these effects happen…BUT…there seems to be an opportunity to find out how long between each of these "out the blue, steak" sessions we can have without it causing a concern for TMAO or any other concerning types of effects on the body. Dr. Gregger, is there any information on this and if not could this be a focus for a follow up?

    P.S. absolutley love your work and thanks for saving lives!

91. Well, this is confusing. I just saw a YT video promoting eggs and liver for choline protecting the brain. I give up I really do. I am not big on eggs and dairy, but I do like liverwurst oddly.

92. TMAO-Meat-Eggs Link Debunked https://www.hri.org.au/news/heart-study-debunks-meat-metabolite-myth

93. Does the high Choline in Brussel Sprouts, Broccoli, Kidney Beans, and Mushrooms have this same effect of producing TMAO?

94. There's more to the TMAO story than eating animal products, including kidney function:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8b9TTApXi4&feature=youtu.be

95. Choline and Carnitine are essential for proper fatty acid transport. You know well enough a lack in this nutrients cause fatty liver disease and also you know phosphatidylcholine is the major cell membrane component, you just made this video to induce fear.

    You know there are ways to lower TMAO but as every bloodsucking doctor you won't tell.

    Resveratrol reduces TMAO. BTW f*ck u

96. So drinking monster energy drinks that contain L-carnitine spike TMAO in blood?

97. how about acetylcholine inhibitors ?

98. You'd better follow the biome path and find why an essential nutrient like choline is metabolised into poison. Limiting choline can not be the answer.

99. Any one here a scientist? What if he is share holder in Pharmaceutical company?! Like the last 20 year scientist said the more egg tha merrier!! Seems to me you should follow the MONEY as ALWAYS!!!! We cannot trust ANYONE that requires a pay check!!! What till they say probiotics are cancerous along with fluorescent lights are causing eye issues!

100. My dear Sister has loss her sense of smell for like 3 years now and after using a treatment recommend to her from Dr Madida for weeks & she got cure of Anosmia and regain her sense of smell.

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