Vegan epidemic

How many B12 should I take per day?
Or it is best to take it weekly?

@Sotcr
The adult nutritional needs of B-12 are 2.4 micrograms per day. You can either take that per day, or you can take a lager dose per week. Your body stores 3,000-5,000 micrograms in the liver (a store that should last the average adult roughly 5 years), everything beyond that is excreted.

@Sotcr I recommend:

– At least 2,500 mcg (µg) cyanocobalamin once/week, ideally as a chewable, sublingual, or liquid supplement
– or at least 250 mcg daily of supplemental cyanocobalamin (you needn’t worry about taking too much)
– or servings of B12-fortified foods three times a day, each containing at least 25% U.S. “Daily Value” on its label

@larlar210 Thanks for weighing in!

Read "Could it be B12?" by Sally Pacholok. 39% of U.S. population is B12 deficient. Saying that only 1% of omnivores in Britain are B12 deficient sounds like total BS.

People don't use B12 supps, there's your answer. I take a sublingual each day, and my almond milk is fortified as well.

In the US 40% of a population of 3000 in Mass. had a B12 deficiency. Everyone should supplement b12. I am vegan and I do sublingual 5000 mcg methyl B12 every day. My levels are far higher than any omnivore.

Now lets talk about heart disease, cancer, diabetes, gout, arthritis… …. ….

@NutritionFactsOrg, it was my understanding that cyanocobalamin is not the human-active form and depletes the body of crucial methyl groups when being converted to methylcobalamin, the primary human-active form. Are you familiar with David Rainoshek, M.A.? He wrote a book called "B12 Exposed." Based on his researching, B12 deficiency is mainly due to rampant digestive problems and a lack of intrinsic factor. The swallowed forms of supplementation aren't going to do much if you can't absorb it.

It'd be wonderful if you could post it to this specific video on nutritionfacts. org. This way more people benefit from the response, and I can actually provide you with links (which I can't do on Youtube). Thanks!

'whiny vegans' is a bit insulting!

B 12 deficiency can be a confusing issue. People really need to know what kind of supplements to use. My wife and I am currently using Veglife Methyl B12 500mcg with B6 and Folic Acid. Is this an effective supplement?

The 39% figure is wrong. 9% were deficient and the rest were "low" or "low normal." I'd be willing to bet that a large contingency of that 9% were vegetarians, vegans, or flexitarians.

The 40% figure is wrong. Go look at the study and stop accepting things at face value from Durianrider.

Solstice, this is getting very tedious. First of all, I debunked your interpretation of the SDA study. Yet you keep regurgitating it, indicating to me that you have no concern whatsoever for the truth. Look closely at Table 1 from that study before you continue to embarrass yourself. You also know full well that I am vegan, yet you keep painting me as an apologist for animal exploitation, simply because I don't accept your lies, whitewashing, and flawed interpretations of studies. Knock it off.

Dr. Greger has been a committed vegan since 1990. You fail again, Solstice.

Dr. Greger testified against against the beef industry before Congress. Yet you paint him as a propagandist for the meat industry. Same with me. This is where I draw the line. It is in fact you with the "hideous, superior, insulting attitude," yet you don't realize it. People like you give vegans a bad name.

This will be my last response to you. You were the one who started giving me studies. You butchered the interpretation of one of them. When I called you out, you blew up at me. I don't know what your problem is. You must be one of the "whiny" vegans Dr. Greger is condemning. If you're going to cite a study, read it over carefully and make sure you understand it. Otherwise, your own source will blow up in your face. Dr. Greger is a wise and experienced vegan. You'd do well to take him seriously.

Were some of the vegans who were B12 sufficient not using supplements but drinking lots of beer?

You might like this study: Korean J Nutr. 2008 Jul;41(5):439-447. It is interesting how Greger fails to mention articles like this that suggest that there are other sources of "natural" B12 besides livestock animal meat, eggs and dairy that are supplemented with B12. The scientists in that study concluded that there are some foods of plant origin which contain B12. Maybe Gregor should suggest the cessation of B12 supplementation for livestock animals if he believes it's not a problem for carnist

I don't think that Greger is pro-carnist at all. I just think he wants to be the hero for vegans who would all be dying from B12 deficiency if not for him. Vegans who don't embrace technology need not worry 'cause they are fertilizing their plants with night soil, not using modern technology like soap, toilet paper, antibiotics, silverware, pesticides and other technologies which reduce the amount of bacteria we are exposed to. Also, we get our tap water treated instead of bacteria loaded ponds.

Yeah, Greger posts vids that suggest a plant based diet reduces the risk of heart disease and cancer — the 2 top killers in the U.S.. I don't think that you'll find any Atkins/Paleo/Primal/Low-carb folks acknowledging this.
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I'm still pissed about the B12 issue though. I'd love to see Gregor post a vid about what would happen if livestock B12 supplementation stops in the wake of the Tufts University B12 study. I'm tempted to make a video about the issue.

I take Methylcobablamin for just that reason. Also, I use sublingual tablets. Sublingual forms are far more absorbable than pills, but less than injections, so I take 5,000 mcg a day to make up the difference between sublingual absorption and injection.

No, I have not read any books on B12, just research papers and wikipedia type stuff.

Japanese and Finish research showed that 500 mcg is the minimum daily intake that guarantees no deficiency. Also, I take 5000 mcg because sublingual is not as absorbable as shots. I don't take the shots.

At 500 mcgs everyone should be supplementing b12 regardless of diet.

I did look at that study. He rounded up but it was in the high 30s from my memory. That was a year ago at least since I checked it out.

You are going by the US rda. The Japanese and Finnish RDA was more recently updated to 500 mcg/day. I am taking megadoses because it is less absorbable than by injection. Also, I failed to find any research that mentioned an upper limit on intake. I have had nothing but positive effects on physical endurance.

I am interested in that book, because I have never found anything else that says too much b12 causes a problem. I thought it was not that absorbable.

Dr. Greger is a vegan. Whoops. The study is called "Serum concentrations of vitamin B12 and folate in British male omnivores, vegetarians and vegans: results from a cross-sectional analysis of the EPIC-Oxford cohort study."

Fake story.

You are the one with the kooky theories. Plant food X read Mozafar enrichment of plants with some B vitamins. That paper reports that when the soil is rich in B12 spinach will absorb it. This concern is greater than supplements, it is about soil quality. You seem to ignore the bigger picture. Why are 90% of the industrial produced B12 supplements used for livestock animals and not a single gram goes into plant fertilizer? Supplementation is a good idea, but what vitamin will deplete next?

Villages in the Cornell-Oxford China Project are reported as consuming less than 1/5 a gram of animal protein per day.This would mean that someone who consumes 2 steaks a year is consuming more animal protein than the average villagers in those areas.The only reasonable explanation as to why they are not wiped out due to B12 deficiency is that the vitamin is not exclusive to animal sources.Some possible explanations: they use night soil, drink and irrigate crops w/ untreated (chlorinated) water-

The theory that someone who eats livestock animals is not dependent upon supplements that prevent B12 deficiency is a kooky theory indeed. Livestock has been supplemented to prevent B12 deficiency with cobalt since the 1930's before it was even realized that cobalt was a key element of B12. Today livestock animals consume 90% of the B12 supplements that are produced according to b12d (dot) org website. Serum B12 levels in young vegans … found life long vegans with no B12 deficiency. (In Japan)

One sublingual pill. I use Source Naturals Advanced B12 Complex. 5 MG 30 tablets. Methy & Adenosylcobalamin. Mostly Methyl though.

They sell it at Vitamin Shop. It is the best I have found so far. Costs me $13.00

I am wondering who recommended a "B12 SERUM" test – which is known for false-positive and false-negative readings since it does not and can not distinguish active B12 from B12 analogues?

Aren't they only known for false positive readings (a finding of high B12 levels when a deficiency exists). I've never heard of a case where the serum levels indicated deficiency when there really was no deficiency.

Is there a problem with taking methylcobalamine supplements? Methylcobalamine is immediately available for use by the body, whereas cyanocobalamine must be converted to methylcobolaimine and is actually formed by combining the poison cyanide to hydrocobalamine

"Norman and Cronin documented reports of the SMMA assay yielding falsely positive results in conditions of renal insufficiency, thyroid disease, pregnancy, small bowel bacterial overgrowth, hemoconcentration, and for unexplained reasons." Mayo Clinic

Ok, I'll give you that. Subtract 5%, 35%… no a1/3 of the US public, not counting vegans and vegetarians are deficient.

There is no way that 5% of the American public is vegetarian or vegan.
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It is quite possible to suffer from B12 deficiency symptoms even if one's serum levels are "low" and not "deficient".

I would guess that of the 5%, 80% do not know what the word vegetarian means. In my most liberal interpretation of the term it can include those who eat eggs and dairy. However, I know self-proclaimed vegetarians who eat aquatic animals and have bird body parts in their freezers. I also witnessed someone say, "this vegan diet is hard" while eating a turkey, cheese and mayo sandwich. I've only known one vegan outside of the Internet, and one vegetarian who actually is lacto-vegetarian.

Indeed, serum B12 levels are not the most accurate metric of B12 status, but they are better than no data. It is still surprising to know that such a high percentage has a (probable) compromised B12 status in a country that has amongst the highest rates regarding consuming foods of animal origin. This is even more shocking when we consider that 90% of industrially produced B12 is used as livestock supplements. How many more people would have low B12 serum levels if livestock supplements cease?

The rotten teeth claim is getting on my nerves. Someone who looks like they've not been to a dentist in the last ten years probably hasn't; someone who looks like they have at least annual dental checkups probably does.

b12d (dot) org (slash) where-does-b12-come

It is also worth considering that livestock animals are also supplemented with cobalt to boost their B12 status.

Can you please tell us what specific type of test you are having every 6 months? Do you consume Nutritional Yeast?

Could Cyanocobalamin reverse DNA Methylation, the so called "Bad Mom" effect? It could be a twofer!

Are you aware that blood test can be the least accurate (can give either false positive or false negative results) uMMA is one of the least prices and most accurate

Good to know! Thanks for the test info.

How very odd that you've met so few vegans. Here in Oregon they are thicker than weeds. When I became a vegan, it was only mildly interesting to my friends, and they mostly wanted to know if my health changed for the better. I've only met one person who thought it was strange – my dad. Go figure.

The man is a doctor. Not sure what your complaint about his title is.

It's true. Vegans are more likely to be B12 deficient than omnivores. We take multis and move on. Shall we talk about which nutrients the typical American omnivore is deficient in?

The iron increase is likely due to a corresponding increase in your Vitamin C intake. C helps iron absorption. On average, vegans have better iron levels than SADs for this reason. True omnivores who get a lot of C also have good levels.

If you look at the actual study, what it showed is that 8.6% of subjects had B12 in the deficient range, 16.5% had B12 below a more strict cutoff imposed by the authors, and 38.5% had B12 in the low normal range. And the standard B12 plasma/serum test is bad because it doesn't tell you how B12 is on the important protein, transcobalamin II. NHANES found that 7% of Americans have elevated MMA, which is a much better test. The cohort was also 2.4x larger than the Framingham one:
PMID 16087991

This video was off to a great start until the ad hominem appeared. Not a very good method to win viewers.

You make a lot of generalizations. Doctors go to school longer than any other profession, and to say that none of them learn anything about nutrition during that time is such a broad overstatement as to be laughable. You haven't met my doctor, and don't know anything about her. You haven't met Dr. Greger, and don't know anything about him. If your doctor sucks so bad, get another one who knows something. I'm a strict vegan, I take B12, my numbers are phenomenal, and my doctor is fully on board.

Tell this to durian rider. He'll put you straight.

Vegan Daddy is all upset by this video how the Dr is pushing propaganda against veganism. That's funny since this Dr is one of the biggest proponents of a vegan diet. And he doesn't get his nutritional information from med school. He's been doing hard core research in this area – it's his main field.

Durian rider is the worst advocate the vegan community could have! He's not helping a bit.

Very bizarre how vegans and vegetarians pontificate about how healthy they are, they are so self-righteous about all the minutiae that they know, and dismissive of everyone else! My goodness! I am not sure I have been getting enough B12 now that I listen to several of these videos.

Pretty talented if he can diagnose neuroses from the sound of someone's voice … and charitable too since he is working for free for the doctor here! 😉

Durianrider is a proponent of b12 injections.

He's done more for the health of this planet than you have, and likely more than you ever will.

Sticks and stones, Love.

Got it, eat a plant based diet but ensure to take b-12 supplement or eat b-12 fortified foods

FUCK PUSSY VEGANS

VEGANS ARE GOOD FOR RAPEING AND YUMMY GRASS FED MEAT!!!!!!!

this is a pretty hillariously biased study and clearly bullshit how can 50+% of vegans be b12 defcient when 95% of vegans eat things like bread and cereal that are fortified with it and most vegans are realitively new to the vegan diet as well like less then 2 years and b12 deficiency takes 10+ years to develop 95% of vegans have not been vegan for 10+ years ether… … lmao this shit is a fucking joke ive been a raw vegan for 4 years who consumes no b12 fortified food and does not take b12 and got my b12 checked last week and my b12 levels are actually slightly ABOVE average… hmmm something seems seriously wrong about this study

B-12 is only one vitamin we know vegans are deficient in isnt this pandora's box? I It unlikely we know everything there is about meat nutrition could there be a lack of something less? If there is what does it effect longevity performance memory depression. This is just me but it seems many vegans are… well just anger could it be cause by some other deficiency/ deficiencies? love to hear what you guys have to say. Easily there is a strong behavioral element to this anger but humor me could it be bio chemical. Could vegans have a sub clinical hypohypoglycemia( if not a true medical condition could they just need to eat more frequently?

Just curious…did they use the proper uMMA test? As you know, most B12 tests only measure how much is in the blood, not what is absorbed. Regardless, it's pretty obvious that everyone, vegan or otherwise, should be taking a METHYL B12 supplement in 2014.

To the peopld getting pissed at him…he's a vegan too. He really is just trying to help us

Everything Here is 100% true and Indisputable. What he fails to mention and in my opinion tragically, Is that on the whole typical omnivores are critically deficient in not just one, but seven other (not b12) essential nutrients. That deficiency is potentially far greater in the risk to your health than a vitamin B 12 deficiency could possibly be. It is irresponsible for him to say that it is critical for vegans and vegetarians to take B12 supplements. He should just say "every human should take a multi vitamin quote and leave it at that.

Got that B12 SON!

Yeast Extract and Soya Milk have B!2

What about getting B-12 from Spirulina(Algae) or Shilajit(rock mineral) ?

The 2nd one is basically soil based food. Doesn't b-12 come from soil?

As the supplement is probably coming from an animal source, could one say that a vegan taking a B12 supplement is no longer a vegan?

I would not want to see the grain supply fortified with anything else. If we believe in organic and natural foods, we don't want things added to it!

1) Water directly from nature like lakes and rivers, alges, especially irish moos, unwashed veggies and fruits from own garden and simple dirt from our own garden … all have vitamin B12.
2) There are vegan supplements as sucking-tabletts and sprays, even injections to correct extremely low levels.
3) Do remember, where we came from naturally and where we are now in our society. In Nature no Vegan would have to supplement anything! The water alone would do the job.

Nice video, anyone tried NuhairRX?

He neglects to mention how easy it is to obtain B12, through the bacteria, yeasts, etc. that are naturally in our environment. Stop be overclean washing your veggies and you'll have enough. How do you think Vegan societies (in India, etc) have survived perfectly well with no problems?

Ironically, the legendary food product "Marmite" is British invented in 1902…wonder if the Brits studied were not taking a common food product B12 supplement found in their own country's food store shelves? (of course, it is a acquired taste)… And, I rarely hear or read about Marmite or Vegemite as good sources of B12 on these vegan channels, perhaps I have not run into them.

I supplement with B12 – rather safe than sorry. Apparently one tablet once a week is enough. B12 is required in very small quantities. I also use a good deal of nutritional yeast in various recipes. Nutritional yeast is enriched with B12.

I was in multiple western European countries recently (although not Britain) and frequently bought soymilk and rice milk from grocery stores, and none of them were fortified with B12 or any other vitamins for that matter. In the USA most soymilk and almond milk products are fortified with B12. The lack of B12 in alternative milks may be why vegans have such low B12 levels in Britain. Although American vegans may be low also, but probably to a lesser degree.

He's so bias all I can do is laugh, if this guy can get a doctorate there's hope for all of us 😀

can't believe this is a cause for controversy. Just take your damn B12s and move on to your next fake outrage already.

can't I just eat some soil from my yard to get Vitamin B12??? The only reason there is vitamin B12 in animal meat, is because animals eat plants direct from the soil.

Getting upset about the whole B-12 issue is one of the symptoms of B-12 deficiency. If this video made you upset, you should get your B-12 levels checked ASAP!

I think it would be irresponsible to enrich more foods with man made versions of vitamins as they usually do that with the cheapest sources that are biologically unabsorbable or inappropriate for human health as they do now with flour, strip off the fiber and nutrients, bleach it treat with bromine and other poison, substitute I.e. Folic acid instead of folate, and all the other man tinkered vitamins that don't work inside the human body. I keep getting mixed messages on which b 12 is optimal, these doctors have differing opinions on a very important topic.

holy shit this 6 yr old video is 1080p60
greger leading the charge

Take your B12 vitamin

That just proves that half the people in Britain are ignorant and didn't do their research. My B12 intake is 1500% of daily recommended value from fortified foods alone. More than I ever could possibly consume when eating meat and dairy.

Need more videos like this to combat so much mis-information about this vital nutrient.

The best B12 source is a chicken's anus

Got it drink B12 supplements made our of suage crap all ur life till you die good job explaining that the slowest 2 minutes of my life smh

thanks dr greger

Can't we just drink rabbit poop tea?

Anyone that tells me they’re vegan, this is the very first thing I ask them. I got my mom her B12 supplement in my home country as well. This is a must, and it should be said everywhere.

I now see a nutritionist (per a recommendation by my M.D., not voluntarily!)
She’s taught me a lot and helped in many ways. After all the blood work and allergy tests, etc— I wanted to know what specific foods I should add, or increase. I was really surprised when she replied “Beef. And pork”.
Not pork as in cured meats or sausage, she recommended dishes such as pork roast, and beef roast. You guessed it. I’m B12 deficient.
Now taking supplements in the form of weekly shots, symptoms are much improved. I hope to be off the supplements soon. I also eat a lot more lean meat. Pork is a good source of B12.
I highly recommend seeing a professional regarding supplements and diet.

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